ROGER ASKS SOME QUESTIONS ON TOPIC AND MAKES A COMMENT OR TWO REGARDING THE
VALUE OF METAPHYSICS
To Bo, DonnyP, Ken, Jonathan and Glove
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ON TOPIC: MINDS, BRAINS,INTELLECT
First, some clarifications would be helpful for me from Bo and JB on
Intellect.
TO BODVAR:
You say that Q-intellect is subject/object logic.
I say that the way to define or evaluate the levels is to look at their value
forces or directions rather than by focusing on static examples. (Glove may be
similar to this too?) For example, the Biological level is defined by the
values of survival, consumption and replication, NOT by DNA, pandas or
rainforests. The latter are emergent phenomena of the former underlying
values.
Bo, 1) How would you define the value forces or direction of S/O logic, and
are they the same as Q-intellect?
2) Do you agree or disagree with my statement?
TO JONATHAN:
As per above, 1) How do you define the value forces of your new definition of
intellect, and how do they differ (if at all) from those of society?
2) What is your feedback on my statement?
Your feedbacks are both valued. And anyone else's too.....(Glove?)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OFF TOPIC: THE VALUE OF METAPHYSICS
GLOVE WROTE:
<<<<<
i am not sure that scientists, executives and travel agents would even have an
interest in the Metaphysics of Quality unless they were exceptional
...........most are socialized and have no room for discussing something as
obtuse as reality. they already
know what reality is. reality for them is getting more stuff and buying new
cars and working their lives away until they are too old and too worn out to
be of any use to anyone, then put out to pasture.>>>>>>>>>
ROGER:
I am one of the above (executive) and I value metaphysics for the very reasons
you cite. I refuse to waste my life at the exclusive pursuit of elusive social
status. I try to embrace experience on all levels, especially DQ.
GLOVE WROTE:
<<<<<<<<there is a saying...institutionalized...that is applied to convicts
who have spent many years locked away in the prison system. i would say that
the very same thing happens to most people who are imprisoned by society.
those who do make an attempt to break free are ridiculed and ostrasized (see
Fintan)
until they either recant or they simply take leave.>>>>>>>
ROGER:
That is why we need intellectual comeraderie from the Squad. I love my work
and find that the concepts from the MOQ help me to clarify issues in a way
that I previously couldn't. Sure, I am a rebel, and the forces of the Giant
corporation can strive to attack me like a virus if the social values are
violated too clearly in pursuit of Intellectual./dynamic value. Yet if we
understand the MOQ, this is expected.
My goal has been to operate within , or just outside, its social boundaries ,
but to extend them through breakthroughs in seemingly unsolvable problems (it
is easier if one understands the inherent limitations of a socially mired
organization). There is nothing like success to redefine paradigms. In
general, even when I am successful, I am distrusted and sometimes even
disliked. I just don't play by the same rules. Personally, this just makes
the whole thing more fun and more challenging.
GLOVE WROTE:
<<<<<<<personally, i think we need more drop-outs and ner'do'wells here in the
squad! :)>>>>>>>
ROGER:
Give me a chance..... I am sure I will get there soon enough! Seriosly, I
think we need all types.
TO DONNY and KEN:
DONNY WROTE:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<Metaphysics is, at best,
an intresting past-time. I don't think we need better metaphysitions to save
the world, clean-up Washington, stop polution, and find a safe, clean energy-
source. Fintan called metaphysics/philosophy "intellectual masterbation." I
call it "play." If it ain't fun... I sure can't see any other purpose in
it.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
KEN WROTE:
<<<<<<<>>>>>>
DONNY:<<<<<<>>>>>>>>
ROGER:
Donny, I am not sure how serious you are regarding your comment that
metaphysics is just for fun. The structural roots of metaphysics and
philosophy permeate throughout society and intellect. The starting foundation
affects the initial frame of reference and the assumptions from which they
build.
Once the initial assumptions are absorbed and learned, most people never look
back...... but that just makes the initial assumptions that much more
important.
I believe that underlying value changes, such as from SOM to MOQ would create
subtle but profound changes in the ways people approach problems, in the ways
they consider solutions, and in the ways they communicate results. just as the
philosophers of the Enlightenment allowed new forms of government to form that
would previously have been UNTHINKABLE. Yea that is the
word......Metaphysics expands the THINKABLE.
But then again I could be wrong, I often am.
Roger
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