From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Oct 03 2004 - 18:54:34 BST
Scott: On what you say, though, are you saying that inanimate implies
non-aware?
If you are, then you are in trouble, since now you must explain what it is
about animate patterns systems that *produces* awareness, and I don't think
there can be any such explanation.
DM: I agree, I was asking if anyone wanted to defend this distinction in MOQ
compatible terms.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: MD MOQ DQ SQ Awareness
> David M,
>
> Notice that you start with one question (how do we describe awareness) but
> then you drop that question entirely when you get into cataloguing
> patterns. Cataloging patterns is a good thing to do, but it cannot help in
> answering the original question.
>
> My answer is that one cannot describe awareness, no more than one can
> describe Quality. What one can do is point out general forms in which
> awareness and value occurs. You proceed with some, Mel has proceeded with
> others (his creations of empty space and so on). While interesting, I find
> these to have started one or two steps too far. The more basic patterns,
in
> my opinion, can be found in Peirce's phenomenology (his categories of
> Firstness, Secondness, and Thirdness), and in the logic of contradictory
> identity. (I've mentioned the latter many times, and I'm in the middle of
> descrbing the former in a response to the paper that Ant just put on his
> website.)
>
> On what you say, though, are you saying that inanimate implies non-aware?
> If you are, then you are in trouble, since now you must explain what it is
> about animate patterns systems that *produces* awareness, and I don't
think
> there can be any such explanation.
>
> - Scott
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Date: 10/2/2004 3:14:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: MD MOQ DQ SQ Awareness
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > How do/can we describe awareness in the MOQ in terms or SQ & DQ?
> >
> > To begin with, within the small whole of my experience I am aware of
> > everything.
> > What I am not aware of I do not experience. Awareness is clearly
> > fundamental.
> > I value the patterns I am aware of differently. Some I take little
notice
> > of, but
> > it is clearly worthwhile keeping my eye on them or else they drift out
of
> my
> > awareness. I move around. Patterns absent themselves from my awareness
> > and others appear: as I move from the hall to the kitchen. I describe
and
> > know
> > patterns through general/universal concepts such as 'kitchen' or 'hall'.
> And
> > these
> > patterns contain other patterns like 'taps' and 'walls'. And all these
> > patterns are
> > contained in larger patterns like house, country, world, cosmos, up to
the
> > largest
> > pattern I have some experience of, i.e. the universe. All these patterns
> > change
> > and keep changing the overall pattern that is the little wholeness and
> > everything
> > of myself. Some patterns have special qualities. They can change the
> > body-patterns
> > within my whole-self of experience. Like big rocks falling on my head.
My
> > body patterns
> > are special. They clearly try to sustain themselves. If they are injured
> > they mend.
> > Other patterns effect me, they make me see what I call red or blue, or
> smell
> > something,
> > etc. My experience of everything over the time of my life is a
collection
> of
> > patterns that
> > have effected those patterns that seem to be self organising and
> > controlling. My self
> > organisation patterns can also influence those patterns that seem to be
> > organised
> > by an intention that is not entirely my own. I know that there are many
> > other living
> > self-organising patterns that come into the realm of my little
whole-self.
> > In this realm
> > these others influence my self-organising patterns and I can influence
> > their's.
> > They are clearly aware of patterns too.
> >
> > In fact is it not the most obvious conclusion that any self-organising
> > pattern that responds
> > to other patterns must have some form of awareness? Or can anyone argue
> for
> > an
> > animate/inanimate distinction in the MOQ?
> >
> > I see one proabable realm of inanimate interaction of patterns and that
is
> > when a pattern
> > is unable to maintain itself in the presence of another pattern, when it
> is
> > overwhelmed.
> > EG when the cow pattern eats the grass pattern, or when a bigger atom
> steals
> > the electron
> > from a smaller atom (part joke). This is the end of a pattern of
> > self-organising awareness.
> > We call it death. I think patterns interact with each other across
space:
> > near/far/touching.
> > I think self-organising patterns interact over time with themselves,
this
> is
> > memory
> > and inner awareness. Self-organisation is causality across time. So far
> > science has
> > concentrated on the causality of patterns interacting in space with each
> > other. The
> > science of self-organisation across time has had less attention. The
> > self-whole-experience
> > is the interaction of self-organisation 'within' across time, and
> > interaction with other self-
> > organising patterns that are outside our inner self-organisation but are
> > within our realm
> > of self-experience awareness.
> >
> > Knowledge is just how well we are able to create patterns within our
> > self-organisation
> > (via society,language,etc) that simulate how other patterns of
> > self-organisation operate.
> > So we can duck the ball being thrown at us, etc.
> >
> > Make any sense.
> >
> > regards
> > David Morey
>
>
>
>
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