From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Tue May 10 2005 - 17:52:35 BST
msh:
In closing, I want to say to all you Randians out there, that if you
really believe you are self-reliant people completely independent of
others, unless you live alone on the Alaskan frontier or somewhere,
killing moose with rocks and melting snow for water, you are sadly
self-deluded.
tfp:
Randians claim self-reliance, but not complete independence from
others.
msh:
Anyone who benefits from the existence of others is not self-reliant.
The notion of self-reliance is a delusion.
tfp:
In the Randian world, men deal with other men freely as
traders, using money as their means of non-sacrificial valuation in a
transaction in which both parties win. The alternative is the muzzle
of a gun.
msh::
There are other alternatives. For example, to cut the Gary Cooper
High Noon delusions, and recognize that we are all in this together,
that cooperation, not competition, produces the highest quality
results for all.
You use public roads and transportation, you use public schools and
parks and libraries and museums; you rely on fire departments,
police departments, emergency medical services;
you use sewage systems, water, power, post offices; you rely on
countless products created by others, the R&D and other expenses for
many of them subsidized by public funds; you count on others for
your food supply.... books, entertainment, conversation and
company...yada, yada, yada.
tfp:
You obviously forgot or never realized that all the goods ever
produced and all the wealth ever created that makes it possible for
governments to build libraries and museums and pay firemen and
policemen comes from the minds of individuals orchestrating
productive work.
msh:
Please provide a single example of a self-reliant individual who has
created great wealth for himself.
tfp:
Furthermore, you bundled taxpayer -funded products with those
provided by the free market as if there was no difference between the
power of free men engaging in free trade and the power of government
coercion.
msh says:
There are no free-markets. Or can you provide an example of one?
And the development of any product requires the ideas and cooperation
of many people, past and present, as well as the availability of
state-sponsored common resources. Or can you provide an example of a
product that does not?
tfp:
Finally, you have tried to associate yourself with some ideal "fully-
realized" person who preaches about "our common humanity," yet when
push comes to shove you refer to "all you Randians out there" as if
they were a separate species.
msh:
They are not a separate species. They are a self-deluded subset of
our species whose notions of self-reliance often lead to behavior
that directly threatens the well-being of our species as a whole.
tfp:
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that the leftist mind comes with a
built in set of hilarious contradictions.
msh:
This is just more slander without evidence and argument.
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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