Re: MD the ideology of capitalism - the Ayn Rand question

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Tue May 10 2005 - 20:53:29 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: Re[2]: MD Probably Silly Questions.."

    > msh:
    > Anyone who benefits from the existence of others is not self-reliant.
    > The notion of self-reliance is a delusion.

    So Ralph Waldo Emerson, author of the famous essay "On Self-Reliance,"
    was delusional? Somehow I consider his thoughts to be of higher quality than
    yours. I wonder why.
    > In the Randian world, men deal with other men freely as
    > traders, using money as their means of non-sacrificial valuation in a
    > transaction in which both parties win. The alternative is the muzzle
    > of a gun.

    > msh::
    > There are other alternatives. For example, to cut the Gary Cooper
    > High Noon delusions, and recognize that we are all in this together,
    > that cooperation, not competition, produces the highest quality
    > results for all.

    To quote from one of my favorite authors, and up to now I thought yours:

    "The ideal of a harmonious society in which everyone without coercion
    cooperates happily with everyone else for the mutual good of all is a
    devastating fiction." (Lila, 24)

    Now who's delusional?

    > tfp:
    > You obviously forgot or never realized that all the goods ever
    > produced and all the wealth ever created that makes it possible for
    > governments to build libraries and museums and pay firemen and
    > policemen comes from the minds of individuals orchestrating
    > productive work.
    > msh:
    > Please provide a single example of a self-reliant individual who has
    > created great wealth for himself.

    Bill Gates. A self-reliant individual by definition is one "having
    confidence in and exercising one's own powers or judgment." (Merriam-

    > tfp:
    > Furthermore, you bundled taxpayer -funded products with those
    > provided by the free market as if there was no difference between the
    > power of free men engaging in free trade and the power of government
    > coercion.
    > msh says:
    > There are no free-markets. Or can you provide an example of one?

    The exchange between me and my local Piggly-Wiggly grocery store.

    > And the development of any product requires the ideas and cooperation of
    > many people, past and present, as well as the availability of
    > state-sponsored common resources. Or can you provide an example of a
    > product that does not?

    As I said, self-reliance doesn't mean independence from others. Don't you
    read? Or do you just bluster?.

    > tfp:
    > Finally, you have tried to associate yourself with some ideal "fully-
    > realized" person who preaches about "our common humanity," yet when
    > push comes to shove you refer to "all you Randians out there" as if
    > they were a separate species.
    > msh:
    > They are not a separate species. They are a self-deluded subset of
    > our species whose notions of self-reliance often lead to behavior
    > that directly threatens the well-being of our species as a whole.

    Still, are not these awful people part of our common humanity you claim to
    embrace with open arms?

    > tfp:
    > Oh well. It comes as no surprise that the leftist mind comes with a
    > built in set of hilarious contradictions.
    > msh:
    > This is just more slander without evidence and argument.

    See all the above, and the self-evidence contained in the previous post.

    I won't ask what the initials "ftp" stand for because it might reveal yet
    another slander on your part. :-)


    MOQ.ORG -
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    Nov '02 Onward -
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue May 10 2005 - 21:10:10 BST