Re: MD Re: MOQ:What is a person.

From: Patrick van den Berg (
Date: Fri Oct 10 2003 - 15:35:38 BST

  • Next message: Patrick van den Berg: "Re: MD MOQ and idealism"

    Hi David H,

    > There is a Pirsg comment in Lilas Child which you may find
    > interesting.
    > 29. The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a
    > "self" that is independent of inorganic, biological, social or
    > intellectual patterns. There is no "self" that contains these
    > patterns. These patterns contain the self. This denial agrees
    > with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. In
    > Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self". Small
    > self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality.

    Hm, interesting, though I'd like to see it worked out a bit more. I
    think I've read Lila's Child a while ago. "Big self is Dynamic Quality".
    I can agree with that maybe, on reflection, but the disadvantage of this
    is that 'big self' opposes to 'small self'. Isn't it more valueable to
    see small self being contained by big self? So that our small selves are
    part of this bigger self?
    It's true that 'scientific knowledge' agrees with the notion that the
    patterns contain the self, not vice versa. When you study attention with
    fMRI or EEG, you see resp. parts of the brain and electromagnetic
    waveforms that are linked to the act of attention. So what our selves
    'will' or 'decide', is not by action of an I on the brain, itself
    independend of it's own brain, but the action of neural patterns.

    What you said, that DQ is not merely not-self, and higher self does not
    include static qualities; well, that's fine with me. To me, it's a
    matter of taste where you cut the pie of quality-and-selves in two

    Greetings, Patrick.

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