Re: MD What is a person?

From: johnny moral (
Date: Sat Oct 18 2003 - 18:50:41 BST

  • Next message: "Re: MD Begging the Question, Moral Intuitions, and Answering the Nazi, Part III"

    >Johnny Moral,
    >I want to believe you but can't seem to get my head around what you are
    >saying. Neurologist, with the new technology (CAT, MRI etc)are getting
    >insights into the functioning of the brain and it seems that consciousness
    >is a result of different parts harmonizing and producing the sensation we
    >call consciousness. I know this is not what you are saying and maybe the
    >stuff I'm reading is incorrect. But I am glad you took the trouble to write
    >This concept of consciousness is so intriguing. Would you like me to quote
    >you some sources that I have found which give me pause?

    It isn't wrong to have a materialist view of the world, the MoQ does not
    deny that things exist, that science can discover real things deeper and
    deeper into the mystery. It just says that things are ideas, ideas that fit
    into existing quality, and though he may not say it anywhere, I think it
    implies that nothing would exist without humans existing also, the birth of
    the universe happened with the dawn of man. But that's not a high quality
    idea, it is higher quality to see a 14 billion year old universe because it
    fits in with other ideas better.

    You've read the Pirsig books, right? In Zen, he describes the basic
    ontological function of quality: a quality "event" happens (he may not use
    that word, but we seem to use it here) which simultaneously produces the
    subject and object. In other words, "hot" happens, and that creates a
    person sitting on a hot stove. Of course the hot stove and the person
    existed already in historical, static quality, just like our nuerons do, and
    just like the instruments that look into the brain do. But they "exist" as
    patterns of value, as an idea of something expected to carry on existing,
    just like the value of the hot stove will continue into the future. The
    ideas that quality creates come from quality, and fit with historical
    quality according to some very basic primary ideas, such as the world is a
    continuous, reasonable place where things happen for a reason.

    hope that makes a little ounce of sense, i haven't had coffee yet.

    Sure, put up some quotes about consciousness, we'll see how they fit into
    the MoQ's framework.


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