MF Discussion Topic for February 2005

From: sqsqcoherence@netscape.net
Date: Tue Feb 22 2005 - 17:30:12 GMT

  • Next message: Sam Norton: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for February 2005"

    dmb quotes Paul Turner quotes Robert Pirsig:
    "In the MOQ empirical experience begins with Quality which generates
    intellectual patterns. One of these intellectual patterns is named 'senses,' but this pattern is derived from the study of anatomy and is not primary in the actual empirical process."

    "The MOQ agrees that the senses are primary in an anatomical explanation of
    [the] empirical process. ...But at the cutting edge of the actual Dynamic
    empirical moment these anatomical explanations are nowhere to be found."

    Mark 22-02-05: It is pleasing to find aggreement between Robert Pirsig, Paul Turner, fig.2 in 'The Edge of Chaos,' and dmb.
    To paraphrase Pirsig:
    "In the MOQ empirical experience begins with Quality which generates
    intellectual patterns. One of these intellectual patterns is named the Metaphysics of Quality."

    However, a flaw has crept into dmb's language; "In the MOQ, the idea that reality is divided between subjects and objects is only that an idea" begs the question:
    "If, in the MOQ, the idea that reality is divided into evolutionary levels of spq is only that, an idea, then do ideas exhaust experience?"

    Idealism argues that ideas exhaust experience, one of which is that there are sense organs, etc: "In SOM, sense organs come first and a sense of value develops from that." This is true of idealism also - value or quality is an idea. dmb is still using a SOM term, 'idea.'
    The problem is eliminated if we abandon the term, 'idea' as Pirsig, Paul Turner, and others do: "In the MOQ empirical experience begins with Quality which generates intellectual patterns."
    'Intellectual patterns' is better.

    "In the MOQ empirical experience begins with Quality which generates
    intellectual patterns. One of these intellectual patterns is named the Metaphysics of Quality, which describes experience in terms of relationships between static patterns of quality."

    Mark

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