From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Apr 15 2003 - 21:42:10 BST
I think I slipped up when I said about DQ, "as if it can be seen without
seeing it through static patterns". That implied that my position was that
there was an "it" that we were just having perception problems with, as
though our only problem was one of seeing DQ correctly, without SQ
distorting our view.
While I do see DQ as an "it" conceptually, I wouldn't give it any
characteristics to be "seen", correctly or not, whereby some things are seen
to be "more DQ" than other things. Those sorts of judgements are entirely
static pattern derived, and none of them, since they attribute character to
DQ, could capture the characteristiclessness of DQ. In my view, anything to
be said or seen about DQ or called DQ is said from a context of SQ, to the
point that there is no DQ apart from SQ. Like time not existing "before"
the big bang, there is no "DQ" before "SQ", even though DQ leaves SQ in its
wake. I get support from "in the beginning was the Word", and a word to me
is SQ.
Johnny
>From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Undeniable Facts
>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:27:41 +0000
>
>Hi Steve, Matt, all
>
>you wrote,
>
>>Matt's philosophy disallows a primary context, a context of not having a
>>context, i.e. DQ, or the possibility of becoming free of all static
>>patterns. He's not willing to live with such a contradiction as a point
>>of
>>view of not having a point of view. You seem to be okay with this
>>contradiction.
>
>Well put, Steve (not sure if you believe this also or are just summing up
>Matt's position, but I'll assume for now you believe it too, since it was
>so succinctly put).
>
>I'm glad you point out the contradiction of all the people who put DQ up on
>the pedestal as if it can be seen without seeing it through our static
>patterned belief about what is DQ and what isn't DQ. Are you saying,
>and/or does Matt agree, that there is no DQ, or just disavowing that any of
>us can see it in it's primary context? Can we come close to seeing it in a
>pure sense, or is any context as perverted from objectivity seeing DQ as
>any other?
>
>Johnny
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Steve Peterson <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>>Subject: Re: MD Undeniable Facts
>>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:48:02 -0400
>>
>>Hi Platt,
>>
>>
>> >> Platt said,
>> >>> Undeniable Fact: Experience (Quality) is always the primary context.
>> >>
>> >>> Thus, truth is experience-dependent, experience being the germinal
>> >>> context from which all other subsidiary contexts (such as
>>historicism) are
>> >>> derived.
>> >>
>> >> But when someone makes a statement of undeniable fact, that person has
>>just
>> >> introduced a subsidiary context. Instead of Experience as Quality, we
>>have
>> >> "someone's mediated experience" mediated further through words--just
>>one of
>> >> infinite contexts. Would you agree?
>> >
>> > Please clarify for me what you mean by "mediated." I've noticed this
>>has
>> > become a very popular word among intellectuals in recent years. It used
>> > to mean "to settle differences between two parties." I don't think
>>that's
>> > your meaning above, but just what sort of behavior the word "mediated"
>> > points to I'm not sure. Perhaps "interfere with" or "translated by?"
>>
>>What I mean is that, first of all, awareness is dependent on a context of
>>static patterns for the individual who experiences. What each individual
>>is
>>aware of happens within his or her individual context. Maybe I don't
>>understand what is meant by equating Experience and Quality. I think
>>there
>>must be a distinction between small "s" experience and Quality since one's
>>static patterns determine experience of Experience. Do you make such a
>>distinction?
>>
>>Secondly, I can't really communicate my experience to you. I can use
>>words
>>to describe my experience but the words that you receive from me cannot
>>recreate the experience for you. I could never buy into being "stuck in
>>words" because I know that I use words to point to experience, not merely
>>to
>>other words.
>>
>>You don't want to live with the contradiction of "absolutely no
>>absolutes."
>>Matt is okay with that contradiction. He will continue denying that he
>>ever
>>made such a claim or that such a claim is implicit in his philosophy .
>>
>>Matt's philosophy disallows a primary context, a context of not having a
>>context, i.e. DQ, or the possibility of becoming free of all static
>>patterns. He's not willing to live with such a contradiction as a point
>>of
>>view of not having a point of view. You seem to be okay with this
>>contradiction.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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