From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Tue Mar 22 2005 - 17:57:10 GMT
dmb:
But actually I think there is a reason why the MOQ seems to say so little
about emotions.
Mark 22-03-05: It has been established that emotions have a biological root
- they are biological patterns. The MoQ only, 'seems to say so little about
emotions' if this is challenged.
dmb:
I think emotions are largely generated by the desire to
maintain that egotistical self, that Ayn Randian pre-existing self, which is
rejected by the MOQ.
Mark 22-03-05: If we accept that, 'Emotions are sophisticated patterns of
biological values conditioned by social and intellectual patterns of values.'
(MM 22-02-05) we can bring a greater degree of clarity to dmb's suggestion.
If emotions are biological, and desire is an emotion, then what dmb is
saying here amounts to, 'the ego is biological patterns of values.'
Buddhists may agree; the ego is Monkey mind.
But this is only the start of it. The next stage is to explore the topology
of features generated by biological/social/intellectual tensions.
One such feature is the intellectual pattern of, 'Ayn Randian pre-existing
self.' But this idea came after biological patterns and after celebrity status.
dmb:
I think this is roughly the same self that seeks
salvation and eternal life within Western theisms. It seems like one of
those incompatible elements and so trying to find these things within the
MOQ is going to lead to confusion.
Mark 22-03-05: Even egocentric can bad mouth God - after all, it may serve
one's ego do be able to do so?
Salvation may be more about power distribution, i.e. social status. (Do as
you're told or else.)
dmb:
Even without re-reading this, I can tell
that it is not a very good explanation. But basically, if Pirsig has a bias
against emotion, it is a mystical bias and not an Enlightenment or
rationalist's bias. See?
Mark 22-03-05: No bias exists. None at all.
Emotions are patterns of values. A central question for Sam has been, 'to
which level of evolution do they belong.' However, an answer was available
before the question was asked.
If the self is an illusion and emotions are all
about that self, then emotions can be quite the trap.
Mark 22-03-05: Again, the MoQ can bring clarity here.
Biological patterns are quite real in the MoQ. If the ego is biological in
nature, which then dominate social patterns for their own end, 'the trap' is
better understood. Understanding is a valuable step toward escape.
dmb:
They can keep us down
in the same way that vice can be a trap and keep us down, you know? We are
addicted to our egos. That isn't a medical statement, but it is literal.
Mark 22-03-05: I feel this is a little like saying one is addicted to
eating; one eats to survive or else starve.
The idea that one may cure desire for eating is fraught with unpleasantness.
The important thing is to eat well; to find a sweet spot.
If one understands emotion, one may strive to emotion well. Thus, that which
may become a trap, is utilised purposefully.
'The way out is the way in.'
Mark
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